by stockresearcher 8 hours ago
From an outsider just going by what you wrote: you are trading a $2000+ year-old computer for a new $2000+ computer because you are annoyed about some temporary problems (yes, they are temporary).
Apple marketers are just going to think that in another year you’re going to get annoyed by some Linux thing (yes, there will be something annoying) and buy a brand new $2000+ Mac.
These kind of posts get a lot of upvotes, but they do nothing to change corporate behavior.
> because you are annoyed about some temporary problems (yes, they are temporary)
What leads you to believe that anything he mentioned is temporary?
Before anyone downvotes this guy, spend some time on the official Apple support forum.
I can't point at a bug that I've seen addressed in subsequent OS releases.
Seizure-inducing HDMI flickering from Night Shift. Finder Trash not supporting put-back _sometimes_. Printers becoming permanently "paused" sporadically, or worse, very consistently. Mouse lag/stuttering because you used "the wrong USB port." Apple photos libraries corrupting themselves with no recovery paths.
It would be strictly better to just not have the forum, then shouting sorrows into the void would feel more solitary.
Countless of issues are not being resolved. I stopped submitting detailed and reproducible bug reports a while ago.
I basically don’t care anymore. Timeline consistently pinkscreens my laptop.
I just don’t give a f anymore. I barely run any Apple software on my Mac.
The only reason I stop use it, is because I have not spent the energy into researching:
- performant + long battery laptop with a good build quality
- disk encryption + while on X attempts
- good trackpad
The rest, the os, the shortcuts, I can change or adapt.
I hit issues in MacOS on a monthly basis, and have been for years.
Not once have I hit an issue that wasn't documented and left unresolved on Apple's for over 3 years.
Some people believe the Republican rule is also temporary. It’s a difference in ahem, temperament I suppose.
The fine article made the same comparison.
> they do nothing to change corporate behavior.
Well, they should. I've been on Mac since System 6.0.7. I've had a Mac Clone. I've been mocked by more Windows users for "using a toy computer" than I can remember. I remember (and briefly used) BeOS. I remember The Mac Performa-series fiasco. The Copland failure. Steve's return. The launch of OS X.
In all those years, I have NEVER witnessed such widespread dissatisfaction among long-time, loyal users, heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem. Users so frustrated with Apple's moronic decisions and the design of the OS that they are literally paying money to abandon it. I'm one of them. The frustration isn't rooted in nostalgia or resistance to change. It's the accumulation of what feels like contemptuous decision-making.
If that doesn't set off alarm bells in Cupertino, I guess it's just one more proof that parting ways is indeed the right call.
I've been running Debian on servers for 20+ years now. And in the last few years I've been running it on my desktop, sort of a toe in the water. Debian hasn't let me down, and I'm very familiar with it.
I was on my way out the door before the Apple Silicon launch. They managed to briefly bring me back in, but the software is only getting worse. It's a shame too, because I do believe Apple has the best hardware.
No, the difference is trajectory and trust.
We all predict the future, consciously or not. We invest our time and effort into a system that we think has a good future.
Tahoe made me lose trust in Apple's software, and see its trajectory as a bad one that I didn't want to invest any more time into.
While I understand that, I can't help but compare this to Mac hardware rather than software. There was a years-long stretch when it seemed like they'd really seriously lost the plot: the butterfly keyboard, the Touch Bar, the "trashcan" Mac, heat issues across the line. There was a real case to be made for abandoning Macs based on hardware issues alone (and I'm sure some folks did, and hopefully they're happy for it).
Then came Apple Silicon. And at least in my eyes, Apple hardware is the best it's been in a really long time.
There are some definite trainwrecks in the current state of Liquid Glass (especially on the Mac), and there have been other dubious choices and mounting bugs made over the last few years. But I've used both Windows 11 and a recent Linux distribution (Fedora, via Asahi Linux, running KDE Plasma), and while I like the latter it's just not enough to make me give up what I like on the Mac in terms of Mac-only applications and little life-bettering affordances I've internalized over the years I've been here. Yes, if the trajectory they're on now in software continues, I'll have to re-evaluate that -- but their hardware took a real turn for the better after Jony Ive and some of his deputies left. Alan Dye and some of his deputies left earlier this year, and I'm not going to count the new team out before giving them a chance to prove themselves.
It's a good point. I hated that butterfly keyboard, and the Touch Bar was an utterly useless gimmick for me. And they realised that and rolled it back (and added ports again!).
They do eventually listen to their customers. Let's hope it doesn't take as long for these changes to get rolled back.
I'm kinda stuck with Mac at work. I don't mind it, but I run Linux on all my personal computers and find that is way better.
I wonder how much connect there is between those in charge of hardware and those in charge of working software. It would be one thing if the software had a design direction, we all hated it, but it was implemented to its logical conclusion and pure stupid bugs weren't left to linger for years. That would be a matter of difference in taste and vision.
But I wonder if they have the ability to execute... anything, anymore. It's starting to look a little like Windows, which in a totally shameless and burlesque fashion has 3 or 4 design paradigms at the same time, jumbled together in a big stew.
It does feel like the decision making is internal-politics-driven rather than customer-satisfaction-driven, for both Mac and Windows now. Senseless changes that have little in common with other changes.
We've had this for decades with Windows, and internal leaks confirming that it's all to do with turf wars between departmental heads.
As you say, it's an indication that Apple are going down the same road, and are unable to actually execute a vision anymore.
Setting aside whether the problems are temporary: what else is he supposed to do? As a customer, the only power you have in the relationship is "I'm not going to do business with you any more". And you can certainly threaten that, but at some point you have to actually walk away. If all people do is complain but keep buying Apple products, Apple will never have an incentive to improve.
First, I have no reason to believe these problems are temporary. There are problems MacOS has had for years that have never been addressed, before they added the new problems when forcing Liquid Glass on people.
Just to put cards on the table, the problem Apple has is disillusionment. They've managed to disabuse people of the notion that Apple designs quality software that is useful in their lives.
People who have lost faith in Apple won't regain their faith even if Apple fixes all the Liquid Glass problems in six months. And that is not something that will happen. On top of that, people are anticipating AI features and a touch-optimized interface.
It's why Google Trends shows larger-than-ever numbers of people having iPhone battery issues, performance issues, and searching for how to switch to Android. "Macos to Linux" peaked after Tahoe, at 3x higher than its pre-LG peak, for example.
Yeah, I still remember when I flipped from Linux to Mac at home. In my case it was a long time ago when I got a 4k monitor and couldn't scale the display text/icons and so couldn't read shit on it, and setting up a multi-monitor setup with Linux with different display resolutions was completely impossible. It worked in a few buttons with Mac. Digging into the issue on the Linux side there was some developer just yelling into the issue that people couldn't see 4k resolution, so there was no point to buying that hardware and everyone was just making a purchasing mistake with 4k monitors. I'm sure it has been long fixed by now, but that's the social problem which is waiting there. It won't be that issue, but there'll be something else like that...
Who cares what Apple marketers think if you are not using Apple products? The point of switching to Linux is that you no longer have to care whether their corporate behavior ever changes: you just live in the open-source world instead.
I gave up on Apple twelve years ago and I can't imagine ever buying another Mac.
If multiple people stopped buying Macs and complained and that got apple to solve the temporary problems, isn't that hat what people intended to accomplish?
> because you are annoyed about some temporary problems
I mean, all problems are temporary, time is money etc. etc. And there are signs that suggest that some of these problems (namely freedom to run your own software) are not going to get resolved soon. Is there something deeper in your thought that I missed?
> These kind of posts get a lot of upvotes, but they do nothing to change corporate behavior.
I don't understand, we are on a discussion forum. Of course writing comments here does not influence what Apple does, that's not what HN is for, I think (I hope) that everyone already assumes that. Why do you feel the need to point that out?
Apple has been headed down this road for over a decade. Not sure why you would think any of this was temporary.